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	<title>Comments on: Eaten By America</title>
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	<link>http://subversify.com/2010/02/05/eaten-by-america/</link>
	<description>An online magazine offering an alternative, subversive perspective to mainstream media.</description>
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		<title>By: Cal Jennings</title>
		<link>http://subversify.com/2010/02/05/eaten-by-america/comment-page-1/#comment-4864</link>
		<dc:creator>Cal Jennings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:32:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://subversify.com/?p=4540#comment-4864</guid>
		<description>I fear that we&#039;re going to see much more of this.  People don&#039;t realize how prevalent this has become.  Those shouting, &quot;They should go get a job,&quot; haven&#039;t been out in the job market recently.  They THINK they are secure in their own jobs, but I fear that many of them are in for a rude awakening.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I fear that we&#8217;re going to see much more of this.  People don&#8217;t realize how prevalent this has become.  Those shouting, &#8220;They should go get a job,&#8221; haven&#8217;t been out in the job market recently.  They THINK they are secure in their own jobs, but I fear that many of them are in for a rude awakening.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://subversify.com/2010/02/05/eaten-by-america/comment-page-1/#comment-4855</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:46:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://subversify.com/?p=4540#comment-4855</guid>
		<description>[quote=Will(&quot;Astra&quot;)]The middle-class still “believes”. It’s that belief that keeps things going.[/quote]

Which is why I&#039;m anti-belief - as long as people believe in a social order it can operate with impunity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[quote=Will("Astra")]The middle-class still “believes”. It’s that belief that keeps things going.[/quote]</p>
<p>Which is why I&#8217;m anti-belief &#8211; as long as people believe in a social order it can operate with impunity.</p>
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		<title>By: Will ("Astra")</title>
		<link>http://subversify.com/2010/02/05/eaten-by-america/comment-page-1/#comment-4845</link>
		<dc:creator>Will ("Astra")</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 19:45:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://subversify.com/?p=4540#comment-4845</guid>
		<description>In destroying the middle-class, the government has destroyed its main support.   The mob is what&#039;s left, and the mob is driving American politics, for good or ill, right now.   

The middle-class still &quot;believes&quot;.   It&#039;s that belief that keeps things going.

Once the middle-class is gone, we have no reason to be a country.

This is the lesson Germany learned in the &#039;30&#039;s.   National madness was all that remained.

--W</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In destroying the middle-class, the government has destroyed its main support.   The mob is what&#8217;s left, and the mob is driving American politics, for good or ill, right now.   </p>
<p>The middle-class still &#8220;believes&#8221;.   It&#8217;s that belief that keeps things going.</p>
<p>Once the middle-class is gone, we have no reason to be a country.</p>
<p>This is the lesson Germany learned in the &#8217;30&#8242;s.   National madness was all that remained.</p>
<p>&#8211;W</p>
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		<title>By: grainnerhuad</title>
		<link>http://subversify.com/2010/02/05/eaten-by-america/comment-page-1/#comment-4843</link>
		<dc:creator>grainnerhuad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 19:19:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://subversify.com/?p=4540#comment-4843</guid>
		<description>Another reason the middle class can&#039;t revolt is because they are too busy treading water.  It won&#039;t be until everything is lost and there is no middle class that anyone will think of revolution, by then it will be too late, and history shows us by way of things like the French Revolution, the Liberian revolution, heck, the end of Rome, that when the poor revolt it is rarely constructive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another reason the middle class can&#8217;t revolt is because they are too busy treading water.  It won&#8217;t be until everything is lost and there is no middle class that anyone will think of revolution, by then it will be too late, and history shows us by way of things like the French Revolution, the Liberian revolution, heck, the end of Rome, that when the poor revolt it is rarely constructive.</p>
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		<title>By: astranavigo</title>
		<link>http://subversify.com/2010/02/05/eaten-by-america/comment-page-1/#comment-4824</link>
		<dc:creator>astranavigo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Feb 2010 23:32:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://subversify.com/?p=4540#comment-4824</guid>
		<description>Karla -- 

Sunrises are better.  Categorically.   That&#039;s why I use one for my avatar.

Sunset = ending.

&lt;i&gt;We&#039;re there.&lt;/i&gt;

-W</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Karla &#8212; </p>
<p>Sunrises are better.  Categorically.   That&#8217;s why I use one for my avatar.</p>
<p>Sunset = ending.</p>
<p><i>We&#8217;re there.</i></p>
<p>-W</p>
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		<title>By: karlsie</title>
		<link>http://subversify.com/2010/02/05/eaten-by-america/comment-page-1/#comment-4814</link>
		<dc:creator>karlsie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:28:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://subversify.com/?p=4540#comment-4814</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not possible to have a middle class revolution because the middle class is too accustomed to believing the overall administration of government is right; that disagreement must be primarily their error.  That failure to thrive within the disagreement of error is a personal shortcoming, not poor dictation of government policy.  Americans believe with every fiber of their being that anyone can become President; that all it takes to succeed is imagination, intelligence and will power.  They believe this, despite evidence of favoritism beginning in early school years, despite taking jobs where back stabbing and lies are the surest avenues to promotion, despite the carpet bagging of their individual assets.  

They will continue to believe there is &quot;something wrong&quot; with those who join the unemployment lines and homeless list until they become one of the numbers.  I was recently displeased with a very large poster that was placed on a local community bulletin board.  At the heading, in very large letters, it said &quot;jobs&quot;.  Underneath it said:

Erase your credit card debt.

Re-finance your home.

Receive a tuition paid college career.

Secure a high-paid position in society.

JOIN THE ARMY.

The risks are not mentioned.  The bulletin doesn&#039;t say your commitment will probably include a year of duty in Iraq.  It doesn&#039;t say there is a good chance you&#039;ll come home in a body bag or maimed for life.  It doesn&#039;t say the children you are hoping to support may end up without a parent.  The widows, both male and female, stare from the windows of their middle class homes and wonder if it was all worth it.  

Perhaps the first step would be to get over the idea that we were ever the greatest country on earth. National pride is good, but it should retain a realistic definition of what makes one proud to be a part of that country or nation.  I am proud of the of the craftsmanship of the U.S. Constitution.  I am proud of the speeches of great statesmen, the literary work of great authors, America&#039;s music and art.  I am proud of America&#039;s humanitarian efforts.  However, are we the best in these areas?  The greatest?  Not really.  When you compare a sunset to a sunrise, you can&#039;t really say which one is greatest.  Each country has its own greatness, its own best that was given to share with all humanity.  We&#039;ve reached a state where many Americans can not only sympathize but identify with the third world countries struggling to feed their masses.  Maybe that too, is for the best.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not possible to have a middle class revolution because the middle class is too accustomed to believing the overall administration of government is right; that disagreement must be primarily their error.  That failure to thrive within the disagreement of error is a personal shortcoming, not poor dictation of government policy.  Americans believe with every fiber of their being that anyone can become President; that all it takes to succeed is imagination, intelligence and will power.  They believe this, despite evidence of favoritism beginning in early school years, despite taking jobs where back stabbing and lies are the surest avenues to promotion, despite the carpet bagging of their individual assets.  </p>
<p>They will continue to believe there is &#8220;something wrong&#8221; with those who join the unemployment lines and homeless list until they become one of the numbers.  I was recently displeased with a very large poster that was placed on a local community bulletin board.  At the heading, in very large letters, it said &#8220;jobs&#8221;.  Underneath it said:</p>
<p>Erase your credit card debt.</p>
<p>Re-finance your home.</p>
<p>Receive a tuition paid college career.</p>
<p>Secure a high-paid position in society.</p>
<p>JOIN THE ARMY.</p>
<p>The risks are not mentioned.  The bulletin doesn&#8217;t say your commitment will probably include a year of duty in Iraq.  It doesn&#8217;t say there is a good chance you&#8217;ll come home in a body bag or maimed for life.  It doesn&#8217;t say the children you are hoping to support may end up without a parent.  The widows, both male and female, stare from the windows of their middle class homes and wonder if it was all worth it.  </p>
<p>Perhaps the first step would be to get over the idea that we were ever the greatest country on earth. National pride is good, but it should retain a realistic definition of what makes one proud to be a part of that country or nation.  I am proud of the of the craftsmanship of the U.S. Constitution.  I am proud of the speeches of great statesmen, the literary work of great authors, America&#8217;s music and art.  I am proud of America&#8217;s humanitarian efforts.  However, are we the best in these areas?  The greatest?  Not really.  When you compare a sunset to a sunrise, you can&#8217;t really say which one is greatest.  Each country has its own greatness, its own best that was given to share with all humanity.  We&#8217;ve reached a state where many Americans can not only sympathize but identify with the third world countries struggling to feed their masses.  Maybe that too, is for the best.</p>
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		<title>By: astranavigo</title>
		<link>http://subversify.com/2010/02/05/eaten-by-america/comment-page-1/#comment-4793</link>
		<dc:creator>astranavigo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:48:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://subversify.com/?p=4540#comment-4793</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;I hope your friend chooses to envision the horizon rather than focus on the building that blocks it.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

I imagine he will.

The American middle-class, in general, is creative rather than destructive; the saving-grace of this nation has been this fact over our history.   People like my friend aren&#039;t going to go in search of buildings to blow up or other likeminded activities; although he - and I - now fully understand &lt;i&gt;why&lt;/i&gt; those things are done.

In the 1930&#039;s, America closely avoided a Communist revolution, triggered by the Great Depression.  When you read the internal communication in the White House during this era, they were never so fearful of the Japanese Fascists or the German Fascists as they were the Communists - because we had only ourselves to blame for the economic calamity we permitted to happen, and that by lack of government oversight.

The regulations passed to prevent that sort of thing in the future were neatly done away with beginning (largely) during the Reagan administration; the result is what we have today.   Bankers and brokers have gotten obscenely wealthy based on these changes (that&#039;s why the stock-market drops nearly 300 points at the very hint of re-regulation).

Regulation gave us a stable currency, a stable economy, and generally-boring-if-profitable business for the fifty years between the passage of those regulations and the beginning of the &#039;80&#039;s.

It&#039;s ironic that Mr. Conservative, Ronald Reagan, was the architect of this mess.

A middle class revolution?  I doubt it.  The revolution will be started by Tea Party types and other Neofascists and their handmaidens, the religious Right.   Sinclair Lewis was correct in this; when Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag, carrying a cross.

This time, the revolution &lt;i&gt;will&lt;/i&gt; be televised.

I&#039;ll bring the popcorn.

-W</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;I hope your friend chooses to envision the horizon rather than focus on the building that blocks it.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>I imagine he will.</p>
<p>The American middle-class, in general, is creative rather than destructive; the saving-grace of this nation has been this fact over our history.   People like my friend aren&#8217;t going to go in search of buildings to blow up or other likeminded activities; although he &#8211; and I &#8211; now fully understand <i>why</i> those things are done.</p>
<p>In the 1930&#8242;s, America closely avoided a Communist revolution, triggered by the Great Depression.  When you read the internal communication in the White House during this era, they were never so fearful of the Japanese Fascists or the German Fascists as they were the Communists &#8211; because we had only ourselves to blame for the economic calamity we permitted to happen, and that by lack of government oversight.</p>
<p>The regulations passed to prevent that sort of thing in the future were neatly done away with beginning (largely) during the Reagan administration; the result is what we have today.   Bankers and brokers have gotten obscenely wealthy based on these changes (that&#8217;s why the stock-market drops nearly 300 points at the very hint of re-regulation).</p>
<p>Regulation gave us a stable currency, a stable economy, and generally-boring-if-profitable business for the fifty years between the passage of those regulations and the beginning of the &#8217;80&#8242;s.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s ironic that Mr. Conservative, Ronald Reagan, was the architect of this mess.</p>
<p>A middle class revolution?  I doubt it.  The revolution will be started by Tea Party types and other Neofascists and their handmaidens, the religious Right.   Sinclair Lewis was correct in this; when Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag, carrying a cross.</p>
<p>This time, the revolution <i>will</i> be televised.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll bring the popcorn.</p>
<p>-W</p>
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		<title>By: A.B. Thomas</title>
		<link>http://subversify.com/2010/02/05/eaten-by-america/comment-page-1/#comment-4788</link>
		<dc:creator>A.B. Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://subversify.com/?p=4540#comment-4788</guid>
		<description>The word that I can use for this article is empathy; I was in  a similar situation as your friend, though I wasn&#039;t as strong - my ego did not allow for me to call friends; they simply assumed that either I had once again gone off into no-man&#039;s land or finally had ended up in a shallow dug grave on the side of the road. It is not so much the depression of failure but the anger - directed at those who seem to get a hand up while you don&#039;t, the anger at others for not seeing the value of your business but the majority of the anger is self directed and, for me, was very self destructive. It took awhile for others to trust that I could succeed, three times longer for the self-belief in that I could succeed yet with a reserve of doubt that constantly nags in my ear even now. I hope your friend chooses to envision the horizon rather than focus on the building that blocks it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The word that I can use for this article is empathy; I was in  a similar situation as your friend, though I wasn&#8217;t as strong &#8211; my ego did not allow for me to call friends; they simply assumed that either I had once again gone off into no-man&#8217;s land or finally had ended up in a shallow dug grave on the side of the road. It is not so much the depression of failure but the anger &#8211; directed at those who seem to get a hand up while you don&#8217;t, the anger at others for not seeing the value of your business but the majority of the anger is self directed and, for me, was very self destructive. It took awhile for others to trust that I could succeed, three times longer for the self-belief in that I could succeed yet with a reserve of doubt that constantly nags in my ear even now. I hope your friend chooses to envision the horizon rather than focus on the building that blocks it.</p>
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		<title>By: Paulbugnackilcsw</title>
		<link>http://subversify.com/2010/02/05/eaten-by-america/comment-page-1/#comment-4785</link>
		<dc:creator>Paulbugnackilcsw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://subversify.com/?p=4540#comment-4785</guid>
		<description>A moving and depressing piece indeed. My heart goes out to you friend and thousands like him. What is it going to take to remidy this problem? We need banking reform, regulations and oversite. When we leave these things up to the &quot;private sector&quot; we get screwed. Continually. It&#039;s greed. We do need a revolution. I hope that we as citizens aren&#039;t so disallusioned that we can&#039;t mobalize and unify to push for change. I think we need to focus locally on those around us and in our communities to start to make a change. Thank you for giving what you can to you friend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A moving and depressing piece indeed. My heart goes out to you friend and thousands like him. What is it going to take to remidy this problem? We need banking reform, regulations and oversite. When we leave these things up to the &#8220;private sector&#8221; we get screwed. Continually. It&#8217;s greed. We do need a revolution. I hope that we as citizens aren&#8217;t so disallusioned that we can&#8217;t mobalize and unify to push for change. I think we need to focus locally on those around us and in our communities to start to make a change. Thank you for giving what you can to you friend.</p>
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		<title>By: Delbor Greebies</title>
		<link>http://subversify.com/2010/02/05/eaten-by-america/comment-page-1/#comment-4777</link>
		<dc:creator>Delbor Greebies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 11:14:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://subversify.com/?p=4540#comment-4777</guid>
		<description>Will, one of the things I like about your piece is the obvious despair you have of the present situation and the lack of a way out.

Let me put that differently: I appreciate your honest presentation of hopelessness. It&#039;s depressing but it&#039;s real.

So, where are those revolutionaries today, apart from the Tea Baggers Without a Cause?

And thank you for introducing me to Robert Bly. I must read more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will, one of the things I like about your piece is the obvious despair you have of the present situation and the lack of a way out.</p>
<p>Let me put that differently: I appreciate your honest presentation of hopelessness. It&#8217;s depressing but it&#8217;s real.</p>
<p>So, where are those revolutionaries today, apart from the Tea Baggers Without a Cause?</p>
<p>And thank you for introducing me to Robert Bly. I must read more.</p>
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